at the top of the show for a little change of pace, we asked you, why are you awake? producer, john tower, the man with all the answers. john. >> kylie writes, i'm awake still because the only time i can find to clean the house is when my babies are sleeping. got carried away and all of a sudden it's 5:00 a.m. >> babies asleep, you have time to clean. a tweet says he's up since 2:00 because we find out the gender of our baby today at 8:30. i am too excited to sleep! only three more hours. i expect to hear the results. maybe we'll take them live. coming up live right here, "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ oh oh ♪ oh oh oh oh ♪ oh oh oh, good morning. it's the top of the hour as you take a live look at times

square. they've got it all cleaned up. it's monday, february 11th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst, john heilemann. >> morning. >> on his way, msnbc and "time" magazine political analyst, mark halperin. he's sauntering down the hall. you know, he's going to make it here when he can. he's on joe time. willie, how are you doing? did you make it through the snow this weekend? >> i did. that's a more difficult walk than you know. >> you went skiing. >> i did. >> did you see the grammys last night? >> i saw a little bit. then i fell asleep. >> fun's on right now. >> yes. >> brooklyn band had best song, right? >> big night for a good band. >> you know, the grammys used to be terrible. all you need to know about the grammys is that john lennon never got one until he died.

and in '64, the year of the beatles coming to america, there's fun, they didn't win. but suddenly you turn on the grammys, and great music is breaking out. >> one of my favorites performed, ed sheeran, with elton john. it was sort of weird. >> there's the black keys. >> black keys, big night. >> black keys, mumford & sons. some really great bands out there. >> yeah. my kids were so excited to watch. >> were you awake late, joe? or have you seen the cover of "the wait." >> no. >> which would be worth watching to you, that really nice tribute at the end of the show. >> i did not see that tribute. i've got to see it. you know, willie, you started to see this a few years ago when the abbott brothers and mumford & sons, they had this rock folk deal going. and i sat there going, wait a second. what am i watching here? because the grammys was always

just terrible music. >> awful. >> but man, it has turned the corner, and it is a hot show. >> i was thinking that last night. this would be a fun show to attend. that's a good concert to be at. where it used to be all over the map and whoever is most popular at the time. mumford & sons was the grammys three years ago, a lot of people saw them for the first time with bob dylan and that foot-stomping music. and now they're one of the most popular bands in the world. and won best album last night, did mumford & sons. >> alex, aren't we supposed to have the brothers on at some point here? >> i think it's delayed because of the grammys. >> they were going to be on last week. >> had to reschedule. >> then today. so i think we're going to have them on. we're not exactly sure why, but we're very excited about it. >> they have a lot to say about the drone program. >> they do. they do. here's taylor swift. i'm not exactly sure where taylor's going to be in a couple of years. she's on this wild ride. >> i'd like to make predictions about that. not on the front page of the arts section. >> not on the front page of the

arts section. >> disagree. >> you think taylor's going to survive? >> staying power. >> she's cool. >> i don't know. maybe so. she could -- if she survives, she is going to be an icon for years to come. a big one. ed sheeran, your daughter, carly, who's 14. >> yes. >> sings a lot. sme she's a big ed sheeran song. what elton john did with ed sheeran, the grammy show in 2001, he performed with eminem. and he did -- that's the first time i saw kanye do "jesus walks." i was, like, who's this guy? so all of this stops right now. we're talking about music. because huge news. nbc news is now confirming a report that reuters put out earlier this morning that we weren't sure whether we were going to go with or not because reuters has gotten some information wrong before on the

pope. but the pope, mika, why don't you confirm. >> pope benedict is going to be stepping down as head of the catholic church. he apparently made this statement within the past few hours in latin. during a small canonization event saying he doesn't have the strength anymore. once again, pope benedict will be resigning as head of the catholic church. we'll have much more on this story as the details come in. we are told that this will be happening fairly rapidly. >> they're talking about february the 28th. that he'll be stepping down. and of course, it was pope benedict who stepped in and became pope after pope john paul ii, the iconic pope of the 20th century, stepped down. of course, pope john paul ii had been pope since 1979. and so, of course, his impact felt not only in the religious world but also the political world. pope benedict, though, never

really, of course, given the chance to emerge from the shadows. and it seems that for a good bit of his time, he was dogged by allegations that came through the child abuse scandal throughout certainly before his reign. he was constantly being dogged by questions regarding that. but mark halperin, an iconic figure replaced by pope benedict who has had a very short tenure and now is stepping down in a way that a lot of popes don't step down before they die. >> short tenure, and it's going to be scrutinized for some of the issues you raised. to me now thinking forward, it's going to be a very big story for catholics and others around the world including the question of will it be another european? there's going to be pressure to look to another region of the country as there was last time. i think it may happen this time. >> it's interesting because we're getting actually mike barnicle wired up to talk about this as well. pope john paul ii had such an

incredible legacy for galvanizing the world's youth. and it's always very difficult to follow that legacy because he was such -- he was almost a rock star in the eyes of young people around the world. and pope benedict, this surprise resignatio resignation. you have to wonder what might be behind it, whether it's health issues or something else. mike barnicle joins us now with his thoughts. mike? >> a stunner. that's for sure. the church has obviously been in great controversy over the last several years, as joe just indicated. the abuse scandal that began here in the united states has spread throughout the world. this particular pope came into the papacy as pretty much the departed pope's successor, indicated he was very conservative, from germany. he was in charge of priests who

had, you know, been charged with molesting kids throughout the world, not only in the united states. i don't know whether it's his health. nobody knows much more than we've just reported on this story right now. it's a stunning, stunning development. >> there had been reports earlier that he seemed exhausted, that he seemed out of touch and disconnected. but we'll be following this story throughout the morning, mika. big news, again, coming out of the vatican. >> yeah. >> pope benedict is stepping down. how long? >> not quite eight years. >> yeah, may of 2005 is when it started. >> a seven-year reign. >> and it ends on february 28th, according to we'll be following this. to washington now. members of congress remain focused on deficits, spending and how to head off the looming sequestration cuts poised to kick in early next month. in separate interviews on sunday, house minority leader nancy pelosi and majority leader

eric cantor laid out the economic dividing lines. >> what we need is growth. we need growth with jobs. and if you have spending cuts, education of our children and other investments like the national institutes of health where you are hindering growth, you're not going to reduce the deficit. so it is almost a false argument to say we have a spending problem. we have a budget deficit problem that we have to address. we think the deficit and the national debt are at immoral levels. we think they must be reduced. we're sick and tired of paying interest on the national debt. and that's 15% -- that's a large percentage of the budget. >> the tax fight for the president means higher taxes, more revenue. again, we can't be raising taxes every three months in this town, david. and you know, the bottom line is we want tax reform, but we want to go plug thosepresident talks bring down tax rates because we think that's pro-growth and we can let the economy grow and let

people earn more money and keep more of it. the president's not talking about that. he's talking about trying to raise more taxes. >> minority leader nancy pelosi also spoke on her reluctance to raise the medicare age to address the debt. >> when medicare started, life expectancy was. 70. it's now 79. don't you have to raise the eligibility age and slow the growth of benefits? >> i do think that the challenge in medicare is not medicare. the challenge is rising medical health care costs in general. and prescription drugs and the rest of that that drive those costs. so that's what we have to address, which we about in the affordable care act, and we're about to receive some reports from the institute of medicine about how we reduce the cost of health care in medicare because we're paying for quality, not quantity of procedures. but quality of performance. and i think that there is money

to be saved there. and i don't think it has to come out of benefits for beneficiaries, and i don't think you have to raise the age. >> you want to comment? >> i don't know where to start. >> i don't know. >> it's breathtaking. and this is the position that liberals have put themselves in. this is where they're moving. and this is why i think the democratic party, for the first time in a very long time, is in fear of overreaching and making the same mistakes that republicans made in the past and making eric cantor actually look like the voice of moderation as he did in that "meet the press" clip when he said we can't just keep going back to raising more taxes and raising more taxes. i'll tell you, democrats are about to step into a real mess if they're not careful. nancy pelosi saying we don't have a spending problem, when the federal government is breaking records every year with the explosive growth of spending in every category. whether you're talking about defense. whether you're talking about

occupations of other countries. whether you're talking about domestic spending. whether you're talking about entitlements spending. spending over the past four years has exploded at record rates. and you have liberals running around saying oh, you know what? actually, obama's spending less money than any president since dwight eisenhower, which maybe they convinced themselves of this just like right-wing radicals convinced themselves of all the things that have led them to defeat over the past several presidential elections. when nancy pelosi says we don't have a spending problem, americans say, she's out of touch. when nancy pelosi says the problem with medicare is not medicare, americans say, she's out of touch. when barack obama says you know what? we're going to fix this by raising taxes yet again, barack obama and nancy pelosi and the democratic party are out of touch. now, listen. i've been spending the past four years saying the republican

party is out of touch, and they're going to lose the presidential election because of it. and i was right. republicans. now, let me say to democrats. you're out of touch. you've got a spending problem. medicare is a problem. and if you go back to the well again and raise taxes again, if that's your answer, your answer's always raising taxes, you're going to make eric cantor, john boehner and the republicans in the house seem like a sane alternative to even bigger government, bigger spending and bigger taxes. it's -- i can't believe they're making the same mistake republicans have made, and that is winning and going too far to the left. >> a balanced approach would have been more, quite frankly, realistic, believable, and you're right, less destructive. >> they're incapable, though, of being balanced, whether it's nancy pelosi, paul krugman, liberals who follow them. these liberals are incapable of a balanced, reasoned approach.

and that's fine. i'm a conservative. i want conservatives to start winning again. please, be as extreme as you want. keep talking about raising taxes. keep saying we don't have a spending problem. and keep saying the problem's not medicare when americans know the problem's with medicare. it's the classic overreach that parties do. and now the democrats are doing it. mark halperin, you don't have to agree with anything i said. i will ask you just one thing, though. is it not breathtaking when nancy pelosi says we don't have a spending problem? >> is it breathtaking? >> it took my breath away. >> did you gasp? are you on your couch eating your baked potato and swallowed some of it? >> it was a big sweet potato, but otherwise you'd have it exactly right. >> when i'm watching chris wallace. >> it is still the case the democrats have to identify the spending cuts. and until they're willing to do that, i don't think nancy pelosi and the president are taking as big a political risk as you do in talking about their priorities. if you want to stop the sequester cuts, if you want to

change the trajectory of spending in washington, you're going to have to say what you want to cut. if you don't want additional new revenue and you don't want to cut defense in an appreciable way, tell us where you want to cut. >> well, i mean, i think everybody knows, do they not, we've got to cut defense. we've got to close some loopholes in the tax code that allows billionaires to pay 16% taxes. we're going to have to go after entitlements. not for grandma and granddad who we love. and not even for people in their mid-50s. but for younger people, they're not going to get the same entitlements. you and i are not going to get the same entitlement programs that grandma and granddad are getting right now. don't americans know that? >> i think a lot of americans do know that. >> why doesn't nancy pelosi? >> look, i think there's obviously intransigence on both sides on this issue. i think that mark's point is right, and i think your point is right also. >> okay, harold ford jr.

give us three points why everybody's right and why you live in tennessee and the hamptons. >> and in comparison wean me and harold ford jr., i consider it a great compliment. >> i love harold. for three reasons. >> what i think cantor's doing that's smart here is that there's -- there is actually i think a lot of distance between where the president is and where what the emerging line of democrats in congress is. this is something we'll see over the next four years. there's going to be a divergence of interest between what the president wants. mika talks about the balanced approach. his answer is not let's just raise taxes again. his answer is we need to do tax reform and some spending cuts. democrats are now getting off on this position where they're saying no, there's not a spending problem. you're not hearing president obama say that. >> are you hearing the president talking about medicare cuts? >> well, he put chain cpi on the table in the course of the discussions. >> and he took it off. >> when the republicans didn't want to make a deal with him and they couldn't pass anything. so the president's still willing to talk about entitlement reform when republicans are willing to

have that conversation in conjunction with further tax reform and more revenues. the democrats are in a different position increasingly which is not that position. it's the position of saying we can't touch medicare. we don't have a spending problem. as i said, that's not the president's position. and so i think as you look forward over the next not just two months, over the next two years, you're going to see this increasingly where the democratic party, if it's smart, will hang with president obama. for the reasons you just said, which is that the country thinks we have a spending problem, and we need to fix entitlements. and the president's balanced approach is where the country is. democrats can't be in a hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil posture on this, or they're going to lose. >> to me it's fascinating how quickly somebody like eric cantor who has looked out of touch with -- i'm talking swing voters, not with me, calm down -- with swing voters, looks out, suddenly he sits there and says, come on, david. you know, the president just wants to keep raising taxes. we just can't -- in a bad economy, we can't keep raising taxes. suddenly you're, like, you know

what? that guy's right. middle america's going, that guy's right. we can't keep raising taxes while the economy is weak. >> not to mention, and tom cole said the same thing yesterday, we just gave you a tax increase. >> rate. >> we just did this with the fiscal cliff. so why should we do this again? we gave last time. we should get some this time. but if you listen to those two sides yesterday on all the sunday shows, it's hard to imagine that the sequester won't happen. i mean, i don't -- they're not even close at this point. there's no middle ground. before we talk about the state of the union which, of course, takes place tomorrow night -- >> i am so excited about that. >> yes. >> i know you are, too. >> i am. >> got the popcorn ready. i'm going to hear him talk about saving entitlements. getting out of afghanistan. >> it's going to be fantastic. >> i'm excited. >> nbc confirms, though, first -- >> not killing americans without due process. there's so many good things to talk about. our teenage kids. >> nbc news confirms pope benedict will resign. the pope made the statement

during a small canonization event saying he doesn't have the strength anymore. the resignation is due to take effect on february 28th. and this, again, breaking in the past hour. pope benedict to resign as head of the catholic church. we'll be monitoring this, of course, throughout the morning. >> and some reports on the internet that some news stories linked from overseas before this announcement, were talking about how he was becoming weaker, more frail, that he's really been battling with some health problems. and i've noticed that you're on the twitter. >> i'll tell you the most incredible thing, there's now a viewer of this program who has been alive during the resignation of a pope, not since 1415 has a pope resigned. >> barnicle was alive for that. >> you were alive in 1415. >> i thought about making that joke-- >> barnicle was in his teenage years. >> disclaimer. >> i'm here at the pope desk. and yeah, 500 years since the last pope did resign. the college of cardinals will

conclave will take place in mid-march. the pope is 85 years of age. apparently although no specific reason has been given, it is, as you indicated, his health and the fact that he has grown daily weary. >> let's float marco rubio. >> i love it. he knows who tupac is. >> he says he's not the savior. >> he did. >> he clarified. >> he clarified, i am not the savior. there's only one savior, jesus christ. >> i didn't know. >> joseph ratzinger, cardinal ratzinger then was 78 years old when he got this job and was actually looking at retirement. he was ready to step down. >> right. >> but obviously the vatican calls -- >> he was moving to boca. hey, how do you know, mika brzezinski, that your church, the catholic church, is in serious, serious trouble? >> how? >> when mike barnicle is speaking. when he becomes -- >> when i'm at the pope desk. >> when he's at the pope desk. where is pat buchanan?

hey, somebody call pat buchanan and wake him up. what's up next? well, we're going to talk about the state of the union next. coming up, deputy majority whip congressman tom cole will join us. also former deputy campaign manager for the obama campaign, stephanie cutter will be here to preview the president's state of the union address. and later, we'll talk to nbc news chief white house correspondent, chuck todd. and "new york times" columnist gail collins. and in just a few minutes, sports columnist for the "new york daily news," mike lupica joins the table. he knows it's true. look at him, he looks guilty. >> of course he's guilty, he's here for confession. we'll talk about that along with mike allen in this morning's "politico playbook." you're watching "morning joe," and we are brewed by starbucks. few industries are changing more rapidly than healthcare.

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24 past the hour. we want to update you on the breaking news this morning. nbc news confirms that pope benedict will resign as head of the catholic church. the pope made the statement in latin during a small event this morning, saying he doesn't have the strength anymore. he is the first pontiff to step down in nearly 600 years. the pope will resign on february 28th. we'll be talking about this throughout the morning and have more details as they become available. >> yeah, he said, "my strengths due to an advanced age are no longer suited to the exercise of ministry." much more on that coming up in just a moment. for now, we go down to d.c., chief white house correspondent for "politico," mr. mike allen. good morning, mike. you guys are taking a look at the new voices in the effort to reform america's gun laws. there's also a new ad from gabby giffords and mark kelly's super pac which will air tomorrow night during the state of the union. let's watch it.

>> we have a problem where we shop, where we pray, where our children go to school. but there are solutions we can agree on, even gun owners like us. take it from me. congress must act. let's get this done. >> so against this backdrop of newtown, gabby giffords and mark kelly coming forward, what will the president say tomorrow night, mike, on guns? >> well, the president is going to push this very hard. he recognizes that this is a unique moment in history and that it will dissipate. unlike immigration which will keep having pressure on it, the people are uniquely focused on guns. so at the end of the week, the president will be going to his hometown, chicago, where mayor emanuel has had trouble with

rising murders there, to talk about it as one of three stops on his post state of the union tour. the president also stopping in asheville, north carolina, and to atlanta where he'll talk about pre-k education. now, that literal voice of gabby giffords there, those three haunting words, "take it from me," will be so powerful in helping the president make this case. she talks in there about how she and her husband are gun owners. so they're trying to appeal there to a sensible center. another big voice in a different way on this issue. mayor mike bloomberg's pac, the independence usa pac, is now spending a million dollars on a special house race in illinois to replace jesse jackson jr. it's going after one of the candidates who has said that she's against banning assault rifles who has an a-plus from nra. so mayor bloomberg, who's spending big on this race through his mayors group, through his podium, he's using

this race as a referendum on the big -- on this issue. >> so mike, when you start counting votes, though, when you look at the congress, what is realistic for the president? is he still looking at an assault weapons ban? background checks? where can he end up on this? >> no, willie, that's very astute. and background checks is where they're hoping to end up. our conversations with house leadership, so there's no appetite in those districts for anything broader than that. the house has said that they're going to wait until a bill comes out of the senate. but the same thing that's going on with immigration. the senate is going to pass a big bill. the house wants to do it piece by piece. that makes it much harder to get anything new. and that key stat that says it all about what might get through the house this year, of the 234 house members, house republicans who were elected on election day, only 15 of them are in districts that barack obama carried. a very red country, a very blue country, that makes it tough to

get something like this through. >> mike allen with a look at the "playbook." we'll have much more coming up on the pope, the breaking news that he will resign effective february 28th. we'll also catch up with mike lupica, here to talk about his new book, "game changers." mark halperin, john heilemann, getting on their phone with their lawyers. "game change." "game changers." >> seriously. >> see you when we come back. [ male announcer ] i've seen incredible things. otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the ground and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away.

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that's what i was thinking. covering the things that make the outdoors great. now, that's progressive. call or click today. welcome back to "morning joe." 6:32 here in new york. we're joined now by sports columnist -- >> how big is this? by the way, he's already brought some breaking news. we need a breaking news banner. the pope leaves, right? and he brings us the news on his replacement. >> mike lupica. >> i never saw it. bobby v. >> he's got a new book out for middle schoolers and young athletes called "game changers, playmakers." mike barnicle has graduated from the pope desk to the big table. good to have you. how you doing, man? >> nice color combo, brown on

brown there. >> thank you very much. it's fashion week. >> it's fashion week. >> so we want to talk about your book more than anything. willie and i been very excited about this. but "game changers," i think it is. but before we do that, can i talk about your last column on ryan braun? just really quickly? >> yeah, sure. >> that guy's a punk. major league baseball has given him a free ride, and now he's lying about being around, as you said, a two-bit swindler out of south florida. this is the unluckiest guy in major league sports. he's always in the wrong place -- poor, poor guy. always in the wrong place at the wrong time. >> he and a-rod are the two most misunderstood people in all of sports. braun is still acting like he was a victim of some scheme when he tested positive last year. and, you know, i've said this, joe, for the last year. he's suggesting that the collector was able to spike two samples perfectly well. >> it was incredible. >> reseal the container and then fool one of the most

sophisticated drug-testing laboratory says in the sport. and mike question has always been, why? why was anybody out to get poor ryan braun? and now if your good name and your career is on the line, why wouldn't you go to a guy working out of his garage in south florida? not the mayo clinic. >> that's who i would go to, willie geist, if my career were on the line and i wanted to get the best expert in the world, i would go to a two-bit hustler out of south florida, you know. i mean, selling pocoke and pop rocks out of his basement. >> i'm surprised lindsey vonn, when she wrapped up her knee, didn't go to the biochemist. >> he is the james andrews of biochemists, willie. >> it's alternative medicine. >> so mike asked a question of this column. by the way, pitchers and catchers reporting this morning. >> i know. >> yeah, baby. why can't you just put a-rod -- why can't you just put ryan braun -- why can't you just put all of these clowns in front of a grand jury, make them raise

their right hand? tell the truth. why can't we? >> well, they did it with barry bonds, eventually. >> neither have been charged with a crime. the guy who might end up in front of a grand jury is bosh himself. if he gets hauled in front of a grand jury, he might have to testify. >> well, who's going to call the grand jury? that's the question. major league baseball can't call a grand jury. you've got to get the dea involved. apparently what mike is saying, that's the closest we're going to get to maybe a grand jury is some investigation of bosh. >> yeah. >> if they determine that he has committed a crime by trafficking and whatever it was that he was trafficking in. the only way we're going to get to the bottom of this is if, you know, as joe said, put a bunch of guys, tell the truth. >> let's talk about "game changers." i love -- i said for 20 years after alabama got rid of bear bryant, it will take one person to come in that's a game changer to start winning national championships. they finally bring in saban.

he makes a difference. you talk about doug flutie in here, being a game changer. here's a guy, 5'10", i think. >> maybe. >> maybe. in platform shoes. faced discrimination throughout his football career. and we all remember the pass against miami. an extraordinary career. >> this -- you know, boys weren't supposed to want to read books like they have since i started writing these books. and ben mcbayne, this is what i imagined flutie was like at 11. this kind of teammate. because as michael knows, he wasn't just a great football player. he was good enough to be a point guard in college basketball if he wanted to do that. and he played in a serious hardball league into his 40s. and so this is a boy who's a great teammate. he's a great friend. and joe, i go around the country talking about these books. the other day i'm at a middle school up in connecticut. 500 kids stand and cheer talking about a book at the end. not about a video game. not about text messaging.

not about cell phones. all of a sudden, these books -- i think because they're about sports -- bring young readers in. and it's been an awesome experience. >> that's so cool. i like that. >> that is a huge thing. as mike just indicated, joe, any time you can get a kid, 10, 11, 12 years of age starting to read a book, picking up a book and reading a book -- >> it's an accomplishment. >> it's not only an accomplishment, you want to take a picture of it and freeze frame it because you're not tweeting. you're not playing a video game. you're reading a book. >> you know, the thing is, when i grew up, i grew up reading about sports. i'm sure we all did. look. i grew up -- i came of age in the early to mid-'70s, and there were so many great baseball players to look up to. kids these days, i mean, they look up to -- i mean, and we're talking about all their stars are 'roided out or cheating. you know, and schilling's coming out -- i don't know, he makes up something every other week. you know, mike, who's out there

for these kids to look up to these days? >> well, the funny thing is, every time i find myself typing this sentence these days, i'll say, well, at least so and so is clean. i'll think to myself, you really don't know that. >> you don't know. >> so you've got to be careful. and the one thing i try not to do in these books is god up, you know, in the old words of red smith, god up the athletes. these books are about the beauty of sports and the beauty of competition. if there's one thing kids know, it's they've got to be able to count on each other as friends. at the very core of these books, it's about friendship. so the book i'm writing about now is about baseball. ben mcbayne does look up at jeter. the thing he does where he makes the hand out. he does that when he hits. i don't want to find out anything bad about derek jeter other than he's coming back from an injury again. so who do kids look up to? i don't know who they look up to anymore.

so hopefully they can find some of the values that i want sports to be about in these books. >> let's talk about really quickly, pitchers and catchers reporting today for the mets. how many weeks do you think it will be before the mets are eliminated? you think by the beginning of march? >> i'm hopeful that this group of young pitchers is going to resemble what they had someday in the late '60s and early '70s. they hung in until the all-star break last year before the bottom fell out. the yankees are far more interesting. it seems like they're the oldest team that i can -- >> god, they are so old. >> it's a team that can ride the bus for half price. and they spent, like, they've got $100 million or so wrapped up in guys over the age of 38. and so i love when i hear that they're cheap. >> unbelievable. >> the owner stood up yesterday and basically said, how much is enough? how much money do i have to spend? >> yeah. >> they've won one world series since 2000 after an epic amount of money spent. >> so willie --

>> well, their big signing was travis hafner who's a 35-year-old d.h. >> fits the profile, old, best days behind him, probably overpaid. >> derek jeter who's bounced back the last couple years but not getting any younger. still have cano. they'll be competitive because of who they are. they'll make the playoffs, but they tend to wilt down the stretch. >> i'm not sure they'll make the playoffs. >> one of those teams will crash and burn, the orioles or the jays. because the jays are supposed to be great this year. >> they're going to be interesting to watch to see what happens with all these new component parts in toronto. >> what about the red sox? >> the red sox will be better than most people think. >> fourth place? >> i think -- i think in that division, the american league east, i think as willie just pointed out, one to five, it's jump ball right now. toronto might be a bit ahead of the pack. there's four teams, jump ball. >> how are the owners faring right now in boston? how are they going to fare in boston, our friends at the red sox if by mid-may they're

struggling again? >> you know, they're going to be fine -- >> are they really? >> yeah. if people take the time to figure out, you know, what's happened over the last -- >> what has happened? >> i'll tell you what's happened. >> other than fried chicken and -- >> they've won two world series. >> yeah. >> two world series. >> 2007. i mean, pope john paul ii, i think, was pope in 2007. >> oh, stop. we need to go back and support them. >> those in new england have to get over their instant gratification syndrome. >> let me tell you something. i have spent a lot of money over the past three years. i want them to win now. actually, they have three or four more bad years, it will -- some of those people will fan out. >> it's going to be a good one. >> plenty of seats available. >> see how spoiled he is. >> it happens quickly. >> you now talk about 2007 like it's 1918. like it's -- like the dinosaurs roamed the earth. it's five years ago.

>> i'm joking. i'm like denis leary. you know what? '04 was it. '07 was like gravy, you know? after '75 and bucky dent. '86. >> if somebody had told you when these guys bought the team, here's what's going to happen over the next ten years. they're going to win two world series, nearly going to go back to the world series. they're going to sell out the ballpark. >> oh, no. >> they'll have the greatest comeback in all of sports history against the yankees, you would have signed up for that. >> i also would have signed up for the fact they saved fenway. i was there for the all-star game, and i kept talking to people, why are you tearing the cathedral down? >> amazing. >> the fact they saved fenway itself makes them okay in my book. >> all right. >> mike lupica, "game changers, playmakers," you've done it again, sir. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks a lot. we appreciate it. on an update on the breaking story we've been following this morning, pope benedict announced this morning he's stepping down as head of the catholic church.

during a meeting of cardinals, he said in part, after having repeatedly examined my conscience before god, i have come to the certainty that my strengths due to an advanced age are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the ministry. he went on to say, in order to govern, strength of mind and body are necessary. strengths which in the last few months have deteriorated to meet the extent that i have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. the pope's resignation will take effect on february the 28th. >> mark halperin, saying the last time a pope resigned, 1415. >> 1415. >> i remember that. >> i know. my god. >> much more on that story coming up. we'll be right back. weight watchers online worked for us.

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morning he's stepping down as head of the catholic church. joining us now on the phone, father edward beck, host executive producer of the sunday mass on abc family channel and the author of "soul provider: spiritual steps to limitless love." father beck, thanks for calling in this morning. what's your reaction? >> well, like everybody else, i'm extremely surprised since it's unprecedented in modern times anyway. you know, when we saw pope john paul ii, you saw a man diminished in health, and some say mental capacity as well toward the end. he never resigned. benedict certainly seemed as agile, if not more so than john paul ii. so i think everyone would have thought that he would stay pope until his death. but this is really a very interesting development because it is so unexpected based on what we've seen in our times. >> what is his legacy? >> pardon me? >> what is his legacy? what will pope benedict's legacy be after just a short seven-year time in the position?

>> i think his legacy would be for many moving to a more traditional catholicism. and again, there are pros and cons to that depending on what perspective you take. but people would look at him as a traditionalist, despite some media reports. many see his dealing with the sex abuse scandal, even when he was cardinal, before becoming pope, as more aggressive than those previous to him. so to kind of get that ship in order again in the wake of the sex abuse scandal could be part of his legacy. i think historically as well. but those two things, i think, will stand out, the move toward a more traditional ka thcatholi and his handling of the sex abuse scandal. >> i'm curious about what happens next. i don't mean to look forward when i guess we should be doing mostly retrospective here, but is this -- the vatican is a very political place.

it seems like the choice of the next pope is going to be, you know, obviously hugely consequential. who are the front-runners? what are the dynamics that play out over the course of the next two months? this is an unprecedented situation in a lot of ways. it's like a snap election's been called. talk about what we can expect to see over the next two months as we look towards the successor. >> papal resignation is given as a possibility in canon law. you have canon, i think it's 332 and canon 44. but they talk about the resignation must be made freely and must be made in a proper manner. now, it doesn't specify what manner that must be. but it does have the possibility of a pope resigning. and again, historically, you know, 1045, i think, and in 1200, we did have popes who resigned for various reasons. as to how this is going to play out in modern times, it really does remain to be seen. i mean, they will obviously have to call the college of cardinals together, and there will be a

regular, i would assume, normal kind of papal vote as we've seen when popes have died. and i don't think anyone is ready for this politically. so the names have not even yet begun to surface. there will be some jockeying for position. you're right, there is a politics to it. we hope that the holy spirit gets in there as well. i mean, i'd like to believe that the holy spirit has some part in this. but the whole question, i think, will be will the voting go toward a more moderate, even left-leaning pope to kind of bring the pendulum back a bit for people who have been complaining that this has been way too far a swing to the right, or will it continue? remember, pope benedict has appointed and john paul ii an awful lot of cardinals. >> father edward beck, thank you very much. we appreciate your insight this morning. we have a lot to get to this morning. the president's state of the union tomorrow. we're going to be previewing that. we have some insight as to what he's going to be talking about. and of course, there's the

controversy over drones. great articles over the weekend that really makes you think if it's a matter of who you trust and who you -- what party you're a part of in terms of your support for them. >> isn't that something also that you're hearing democrats saying well, you know, it's okay -- >> exactly. >> -- for us to do this because we trust barack obama. >> i'd struggle with that. >> what would happen if republicans -- >> what if it were dick cheney? >> what more would republicans do than what's happening right now? >> dick cheney, by the way, had choice words for the president's foreign policy team. i'm not sure i agree with that. in "the new york times," a great must-read, quietly killing a consumer watchdog. it's how the republicans are just doing everything they can not to have the consumer financial protection bureau that was created by elizabeth warren under president obama actually function because it would keep them, quite frankly, from being able to get their money from all their donors on wall street. and they do not want to lose the people who helped them out. so they want to make sure that

the consumer suffers so that they can gain politically. it's a good one. take a look at it. coming up -- >> we're also going to talk about nancy pelosi saying we don't have a spending problem, and the problem with medicare is not medicare. we've got a lot to talk about straight ahead. >> gail collins of "the new york times" joins us straight ahead. >> she's got a great column. >> i love it. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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coming up next, breaking news out of the vatican. pope benedict announces he will resign, and his closest said c say this took them by surprise. up next, could governor christ christie's weight be a good thing for his political future? >> she writes about a time when corpulence was in vogue. i guess i was just born a little late. mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could.

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♪ but if you try sometimes ♪ you just might find ♪ you just might find ♪ you get what you need top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." look at that foggy day in new york city after the big storm over the weekend. >> how much snow did you guys get? >> oh, my lord, we got so much snow. over a foot. >> really? >> definitely. in some area, more. >> 30 inches. >> really? >> whoa. >> we got about 25. but i actually escaped and got in the car. >> and got more snow. >> and went up to vermont to get away. >> that must have been beautiful. >> it was gorgeous. but we actually had less snow up in vermont. >> no way. are you serious? here, i'll take that. joining us -- we've got mike barnicle, mark halperin still with us. and joining us on the set, "new york times" columnist, gail collins. >> have you read this? this is great stuff. >> i love it. we'll get to the chris christie issue in just a moment. we begin with breaking news. pope benedict announced this

morning he is stepping down. the 85-year-old said in part, quote, after having repeatedly examined my conscience before god, i have come to the certainty that my strength, due to an advanced age, are no longer suits to an adequate exercise of the ministry. pope benedict was elected at age 78, making him the oldest pope elected in nearly 300 years. the resignation will take effect on february 28th. the vatican is expected to elect a new pope by mid-march. the last time a pope resigned was in the year 1415. >> all right. we're going to keep following that. but now let's talk about something just as critical about a time, when there was a decided tendency toward corpulence, a column written by our own gail collins. i'm very excited about this. >> there were so many good must-reads to choose from yesterday. >> this was the best. >> frank bruni's was pretty good, too.

>> it was great. >> it was great. >> he said the corpulence versus the thinness thing. >> he has a book -- i mean, he's gone way beyond. >> his book was great. the image i have is him continuing to eat cheeseburgers as a 2-year-old until he threw up. >> that was a hard time for him. >> i'm still doing that. what? >> frank is very fit now. >> he is. whew! here we go. by the way, you notice she always defends "the new york times" column. i bring up krugman. you bring up bruni, he's very fit now. you are the protector. that's great. everybody should -- everybody needs a protector like you. >> they don't need protecting. they are -- >> see, there you did it again. >> look at you. >> it's reflective. that's fantastic. >> here we go. your latest column, you focused on new jersey governor chris christie and his weight. and you write, in part, "there is a national accord that thin is generally better than fat. however, it's hardly the biggest

issue when you're picking a governor. there are citizens all over the country who would trade their more compact leaders for christie in a second. just ask somebody in pennsylvania or illinois. the guy in florida has the physique of a greyhound, and that state is totally miserable. if christie did run, we would get to talk a lot about grover cleveland. cleveland weighed about 300 pounds when he ran for president, and his supporters regarded that as an asset. >> here's the line. here's the money line. >> there is a decided tendency toward corpulence as is usually the case in vital temperaments, wrote a campaign biographer. also, i will get to point out that william henry harrison only lasted a month, and he was thin as a rail. >> yes, he was. >> you talk about eliot spitzer. you talk about all these thin governors that had issues, too. >> didn't work out. >> it didn't work out. >> and then you bring up william weld. this is the toughest job in the world. he was gone for a couple weeks

and wouldn't even call in. >> if we're talking about senator -- >> senator, i'll see you in five years. >> we're talking, you know, new jersey, which has everything. we're talking about a guy 90 years old running for re-election. you can do it. you know, what does it take to be a senator? you just have to be presideent. >> what do you make of all the discussion all of a sudden about his weight and how he's handling it? >> he sort of did it. you go on letterman and eat a doughnut, that will start it off again. if he's running for governor, it is so totally not an issue. really, the governor's job is a job that, except for emergencies, obviously, like storms, you can pretty much put into it whatever you choose to put into it. it's not something that's going to kill you. >> but if you're running for president, that's entirely different politics. >> then we also get to talk about grover cleveland which is my favorite president in the entire world. >> tell us why cleveland is your favorite president in the entire world. >> oh, my god, he had these great sex scandals. he had these little beady eyes,

and he was bald. and he weighed 300 pounds. and he was a bachelor. everybody was wondering what would happen. he married the daughter of his law partner who was, like, 20 years old who he had loved forever. it's a great story. my god, i love it. >> he had loved her forever despite the fact that she was 20. >> yes. she was his world. >> we're venturing here into ron wyman territory where a 52-year-old picks up a 20-year-old. they were more progressive then, weren't they? all right. >> well, i thought the way chris christie dealt with the letterman issue was troubling. because i felt like he felt like he had to do it. i know for a fact that all those jokes that david letterman cracked and others were not funny to him. and he gets daily tweets that are really, really mean. and i guess this was the only way to deal with it, but i think it's a sign of a bigger problem that we really ought to be able to have a conversation about

weight that is serious and not funny. at all. because it's a huge health crisis. >> we have hit extremely fit politicians now for a couple of generations. >> yeah. >> stupendously fit, and it has had no impact whatsoever on national weight issues. so i'm figuring that the politicians are probably not the people that the nation is looking to. >> although some of them have been leaders. there have been mayors and governors who have lost weight and had cities do it with them and redesigned cities so that they are healthier. >> there's just not a connection, though. you bring up a good point. sometimes what makes some of these guys so fit may speak, you know, 55-year-old, speak to -- i don't know about a bigger problem, but a vanity or something. >> or you may want to slow some of these guys down a little bit, you know. there have some of them who have been altogether too energetic in

their private activities. >> exactly. >> it didn't work for grover, though. >> grover, he was perfectly happy once he got married. but he did have a sex scandal, you're right. and then there's william howard taft. we can talk about taft. >> chased secretaries around desks. >> no sex scandals for taft. somebody claims once he got stuck in a bathtub, but i don't know if that's truly true. i think that may be just a legend. >> this is big. and by the way, mika, the president, i suspect, will be speaking about all of this in the state of the union address. >> all right. we have that coming up. members of congress remained focused on deficits, spending and how to head off the looming sequestration cuts poised to kick in early next month. in separate interviews on sunday, house minority leader nancy pelosi and majority leader eric cantor laid out the economic dividing lines. >> what we need is growth. we need growth with jobs. and if you have spending cuts, education of our children and other investments like the national institutes of health

where you are hindering growth, you're not going to reduce the deficit. so it is almost a false argument to say we have a spending problem. we have a budget deficit problem that we have to address. we think the deficit and the national debt are at immoral levels. we think they must be reduced. we're sick and tired of paying interest on the national debt, and that's 15% -- that's a large percentage of the budget. >> mark, nancy pelosi also said that the problem with medicare was not medicare. but nancy's always been fairly consistent about this. don't cut any spending. stay away from medicare. stay away from entitlement programs. ignore the math. but in that rap, what she said right there, really she is representing the views -- i think the extreme views -- but the views of the caucus she represents in the house. >> well, and senator reid's been pretty outspoken, too, about saying no compromise on cutting medicare. you know, it is possible that in a parallel universe, the first

fiscal cliff deal would have led to greater trust between the parties, a greater sense of willingness to compromise. we are now -- i won't say at the absolute low point, but we are certainly nowhere near the high point of a point of view from either republicans or democrats about compromising on these big issues. for the democrats, they want more tax increases. as part of the next deal. and eric cantor yesterday, "meet the press," made it clear like we just did our tax increase. we're done with that. i think if the president in the state of the union, as advertised, and he's basically drawing lines in the sand and not looking for compromise, it's hard to see how the year progresses where there is a reasonable compromise on medicare and tax reform. >> and if that happens, if the president does the state of the union and it's one side against the other side, one thing we do know, sequestration passes. and i think that's something the president doesn't want. that's something that some members of congress don't want as well. >> yeah, you don't want it because it screws up the economy. i think that's the great argument that everybody should be able to relate to about

sequestration. it will just mess things up, you know, growth will stop. defense spending is stopping, which some people would like to see but not in a way that's going to ruin the way the economy is growing right now. so it's going to be a mess if it happens, but it does seem that we are falling off that particular cliff. president obama will deliver his state of the union address tomorrow. a speech white house officials say will focus on jobs and the economy. the president is expected to push for more investments in infrastructure, clean energy and education. he'll zero in on the issue of the middle class, advocating for what he described to house democrats last week as a, quote, economy that works for everybody. tomorrow's speech will also focus on immigration, climate change and gun violence, echoing themes from last month's inaugural address. on wednesday, the president will head to asheville, north carolina, to begin a three-state tour to sell his proposals. the post-state of the union

presidential barnstorming will also hit atlanta and end out in chicago later in the week. >> so what proposals are we talking about, mike? i mean mark. anybody? >> gun control. >> gun control. >> immigration. >> they're going to love that in north carolina and georgia. >> education. >> i guess we're going to be -- >> nuclear disarmament. less nuclear bombs. >> so he's bringing up nuclear disarmament again. has anybody told him it's not 1987? >> stop. be nice. >> who could be against it? >> i know! but seriously. >> it's just money, though. >> how much money does it save? he is just one man. >> it could save us billions, i think. >> i'd like to say billions. i'm for saving billions of dollars. >> i think what he needs to do for himself and the country if he's going to talk about investments is to make the case which he's struggled to make, that he's got a vision for economic growth because these investments might help people. we need some growth. >> you like that pivot he made? this is a president that's

talked about everything but jobs since the state of the -- i mean since his inauguration. everything. and then just a couple of days ago, they do the quick pivot. oh, yeah, and by the way, we're interested in jobs, too. >> it's all got to be about that. and i think it will be rhetorically, but he needs to -- i hate always to compare him to bill clinton, but in this area, he needs to be a little more clintonesque. he needs to convince people he's got a theory of the case about what it is to create jobs. >> does he have a theory of the case? >> it's a lot like bill clinton's. invest in things that make us stronger. >> his fifth state of the union, mike, you said we're going to find out. how long's it going to take us to find out if he knows how to create a job? >> if it's like bill clinton's, it could take hours and hours and hours. >> i used to go in the back of the cloak room, say wake me up when there's 30 minutes left. >> they loved all those long, long lists. >> really?

>> they did. >> it's going to be interesting to see if essences that there is a whole group of people between the age of about 40 and maybe 55, 56 years of age who have lost jobs in the last four or five years who are feeling hopeless about their immediate future, to see if essences that angst that's out there among a huge number of people. >> so you're asking questions about, you know, whether or not he's in the right decade. this will help you. the state of the union will put the president face to face with his congressional critics including those vowing to oppose his nominees for top cabinet slots at the pentagon and cia. republican senator lindsey graham threatened to hold up those picks until the white house delivers more information about the attacks in benghazi. >> i don't think we should allow brennan to go forward for the cia directorship, hagel to be confirmed as secretary of defense until the white house gives us an accounting, did the president ever pick up the phone

and call anyone in the libyan government to help these folks? what did the president do? yes, i'm going to ask my colleagues just like they did with john bolton, joe biden said, no confirmation without information. no confirmation without information. >> you are saying that you are going to block the nominations -- you're going to block them from coming to a vote until you get an answer? >> yes. >> now, john mccain has already think that he doesn't think republicans ought to filibuster this. what will you do? you're just going to put a hold on it? >> yeah, i'm not filibustering. this is a national security failure of monumental proportions, and i'm not going to stop until we get to the bottom of it. >> first of all, i'm shocked. you know, lindsey graham doesn't usually like getting in front of a camera and going on the sunday talk shows. so i'm shocked that lindsey actually was on. >> i think it was a stakeout. >> it must have been a stakeout. >> he staked out "face the nation." when they unlocked the door, he ran in. >> chased bob schieffer. you know, somebody ought to tell

the republicans in the senate that they need to talk to lindsey. you know, it's kind of like when regis did "who wants to be a millionaire?" it worked one night a week. >> it worked. >> but then abc said it works one night. then two, then three, then five, then seven. >> then it stops working. >> it stops working. >> yeah. >> lindsey's on -- >> are there any other republicans who want to be on television? >> nobody else wants to be on television but lindsey. >> what happened to them? >> i don't know. >> he's not box office. >> he's not box office. they're talking about benghazi. i've got news for them. listen, a tragedy -- >> please. >> -- they bungled it terribly. >> let it go. >> it was horrible. it was. and you think that you're going to get hillary, and hillary comes, and she pounds your political souls to dust. >> yeah. >> and she's sitting at 66% approval rating, hillary clinton, the, quote, villainess of benghazi, has a higher

approval rating than not only any republican -- >> yeah. >> -- any politician in america. >> higher approval rating than pudding. >> pudding at 64%. she's at 66%. and yet, they keep throwing -- let me tell you something. if you've got a guy -- >> yeah. >> -- a working-class guy that has voted republican every four years and he sees -- he turns on the sunday shows and he's flipping around the channels, and he sees republicans in february -- >> yeah. >> -- still talking about benghazi, saying they're going to hold up the picks for secretary of defense and cia director because of something -- >> john kerry, john brennan. >> -- that happened back in the fall and they continue on this, this is a great example. i'm not saying you don't continue investigating it till the cows come home. >> ask questions. it's always important. >> fine. >> i want to hear them.

>> but to hold up this and talk about it on sunday morning, it's a colossal mistake. >> i'm just wondering, other republicans, when you see lindsey graham on "face the fashion nation," are you, like, yes! that's my party! he did it again! awesome! >> that's actually what they're not saying. >> well, then get on television. >> they're saying, please, don't say anything that's going to embarrass us this week. >> reading the transcript is pretty disturbing, what senator graham had to say yesterday. he basically said -- and i'm paraphrasing here -- if the president of the united states had picked up the phone and called someone in libya, he could have saved the lives of the americans. clearly, evidence means nothing to him. clearly the time line of events means nothing to him. i mean, someone should give senator graham a snickers and tell him to go sit in the corner until he's happy about something. it's disturbing. >> unless he's got sugar problems and he's low, his sugar's low, i don't think a snickers bar is going to help

him. but gail, the thing is, the problem wasn't what happened that day. that was the disaster, but that was at the end of the state department and a lot of other people ignoring repeated requests for security. >> and you know, admittedly, neither the defense nominee nor the cia nominee had the best conceivable appearances before the committees when they were being vetted. good way to completely wipe that off the calendar forever. once the world finds out that the only issue here is what happened in benghazi and whether the president picked up the phone, this is the best thing conceivably that could have happened to chuck hagel, i would say. >> all right. the criticism from senators graham and mccain follow a blistering attack on saturday by former vice president dick cheney who told a group of wyoming republicans, quote, the performance now of barack obama as he staffs up the national security team for the second term is dismal. frankly, what he has appointed are second-rate people.

>> well, you would expect that from a guy that was one of the driving forces of the neocons. you'd expect him, mark halperin, to not like chuck hagel for the same reasons i want a guy like chuck hagel in, because hagel is more of a realist. and i think will pull back a little bit from this neocon position. that not just republicans have taken but a lot of democrats including, i think, john kerry. john kerry likes to use force more than i'm comfortable with. a lot of democrats do. >> yeah, we still see over the weekend anti-hagel ads on tv. and i think it's going to be a real challenge. i still think he'll be confirmed. i think most people think that. the real challenge for hagel and kerry, to figure out a way to work with capitol hill on a lot of big challenges on foreign policy after all the sacrimony. >> chuck hagel has a lot of learning to do. gail, his performance,

stylistically, it was dismal. he looked like he had been up all night. he's got a lot of homework to do abo before he becomes secretary of defense. >> they may need another person going on the talking shows other than lindsey graham on sunday. >> that will help. >> my, my, my. >> what is the republican foreign policy right now? is it dick cheney? is that what they want out there? is it lindsey graham? who is speaking? >> they're struggling right now because john mccain has decided, on capitol hill, what the republican party's position's going to be on foreign policy. i'm not saying that i disagree with him on a lot of things. i think syria has been misplayed. i think that is a tragedy. i think we're going to look back and we're going to be -- there are going to be a lot of questions asked. but he's a neocon, through and through. and most republican senators that i talk to and mika talks to, they're not comfortable with

that position. you look shocked that mika talks to republican senators, but she does. >> one on one. i have joe there, too. >> i'm amazed. one on one, joe there, too. >> yeah, two. >> i'm in the back taking notes. >> you know, usually it's fascinating what we can gather behind the scenes on the hill. >> they're not neocons. they're more realists. coming up, former deputy campaign manager for the obama campaign, stephanie cutter, will be here. also nbc latino contributor, dr. victoria defrancesco soto. and up next, chuck todd joins us with a preview of the president's state of the union address. and also from washington, republican congressman tom cole. >> here's another republican. >> i like him. >> and he's great! >> thank god he's going on television. >> we need him! >> tom, please. >> he's not lindsey graham. he says sequestration cuts are, quote, inevitable. i certainly hope so. and that the president's to blame. you're watching "morning joe," and we are brewed by lindsey graham. mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004.

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26 past the hour. >> can i talk about, instead of the white house, can we talk about for a second heilmann's jacket? i'm not used to you dressing up. >> i dressed up for you today. >> i'm not used to having him not snort and slobber all over the set. >> i said, it's tom ford. >> lapels i think is what you're looking for. >> tom ford. >> somebody got your act together. >> that looks very good. i need that. >> chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. and from capitol hill, republican representative from oklahoma and deputy majority whip -- >> this is exciting! >> -- congressman tom cole. thank god.

>> he is not lindsey graham. >> a sane republican. >> anyway, tom, let's talk about a couple things. first of all, sequestration. this thing looks like it's not going to be avoided. i mean, the president's talking about more tax increases. you get a feeling -- i mean, he hasn't talked about any specific cuts. it's a very blunt, crude instrument, but it's all we have right now, isn't it? >> it absolutely is, and it is going to happen. we're more than happy to negotiate with the president about how you redistribute the cuts. you know, a lot less discretionary, more nondiscretionary, different categories. that makes sense. and we'll probably do that within the month in the continuing resolution ourselves if the president doesn't come to the table. but the idea that there's going to be any more revenue here, that's not going to occur. these cuts are in law. they're going to happen. we'd like to work and redistribute them, but again, they're going to take place. and they need to take place. we're running trillion-dollar deficits. my goodness. >> i'm fwlad to hear you say

that you're open to cuts, more nondiscretionary cuts because both sides always go to the discretionary domestic spending because those are the quote, quo easy cuts. is that your position? >> very much so. look, we've got an entitlement crisis. and that's where the real money is. you know, we're going to have to reform those programs or we're going to lose them. and i don't want to lose social security or medicare or medicaid, but they've got to change dramatically. we tried to do that in the ryan budget last year. i think we'll see us even more aggressive this year. that's where we've got to go. we're not going to lose these cuts. they're in law. the same way the president enjoyed the advantage in the fiscal cliff negotiations, the tax increases were in law and the best we could do was negotiate and save as many of the bush tax cuts as we could. now, you know, these cuts are in law. so they're going to occur, and he should sit down with us and talk about how to make them a little more rational than they currently are. >> tom cole, gentleman from oklahoma, aka mr. specificity.

>> you know, that's what all the kids -- all the kids are calling him that on the streets of oklahoma city. mr. specificity. >> be king for a day. >> i'd be happy tore called mr. excess physician it'd. >> rejigger the deficit reduction in the sequester more to your liking, what additional areas would you cut in order to scale back? >> my goodness, let's go first to medicare and social security. i think we ought to link the ages and gradually move them up. i think we ought to go to change cpi right away. i hate to use jargon like that. >> but none of that saves you money this year. >> actually, it saves you money within the budget window. we can still, by the way, do some of the sequester. there's still fat in the discretionary budget, but the real drivers, again, are long te term. and you begin to gradually change that, you change the fiscal outlook of the country a lot quicker than you do with sequester. >> john heilemann is here in his tom ford jacket, and he has a

question for you. >> congressman, i'm a little confused about the way republicans have been talking about the sequester especially with respect to defense. when the deal first got done, republicans and conservatives broadly said this would be a disaster for defense, and there's no way we could let the sequester happen because of the impact it would have on national security and our readiness and all of that stuff. now the posture seems to have shifted among a lot of your colleagues. i'm not sure for yourself, but people now go, well, the sequester would be just fine. if this becomes the way in which we get these spending cuts done, that would be okay. and there seems to be a general attitude of backing away from the notion about how severe and how problematic these cuts would be. so explain that shift to me over the course of the last year or so. >> look, i actually think admiral mullen had it about right when he said the biggest national security threat to the country in the long term is the deficit. you've got to deal with it. that's going to affect the military not just today, tomorrow but indefinitely. you know, having said that, again, i would much prefer not to do this. we have taken a half trillion

dollars out of defense already. the commander in chief ought to be at the table with us negotiating about how to redo these consuuts. we can do that. he's not been there, has not laid out a proposal which is amazing to me. last year in may and again in december, we passed ways to deal with this without cutting defense. the senate never took them up. the president never responded to our request to negotiate, so here we are. at the end of the day, you have to start getting this budget into balance. and i think republicans, it's a blunt instrument, but it's the only one in hand. and if this is what we have to do, we'll do it. and then we'll try and rejigger the cuts, if you will, without lowering the amount being cut in the continuing resolution toward the end of march. >> you know, proving that i cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. >> right. >> it just hit me. >> what? >> chuck todd's here! >> yes. i tried to tell you. >> i'm sorry, chuck. i was so swept up by mr. specificity. >> i'm a tom cole fan. >> i am, too, chuck. >> longtime.

yeah. >> he makes sense. >> longtime, first-time caller. >> you know, we had him on before. it was cool. now you're putting him on. that's all right. tom knows where it is, right, cole? >> you were cole before cole was cool. >> something like that. chuck todd, first of all, i'm interested in terms of the state and union and what we're expecting to hear from the president tomorrow. we'll get to that in a second. i'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on lindsey graham's performance on "meet the press" yesterday. >> or "face the nation." they all blur together. >> or "face the nation." then he'd like to ask the congressman the same question about his fellow republican. >> look, i don't think -- i was unsurprised. i mean, graham has been saying this about hagel and brennan for some time. and this is where he has been on this. and one thing about lindsey graham, he's sort of like a bulldog with lockjaw. when he gets -- sort of grabs onto something, grabs onto an issue, he has a hard time letting it go. >> bulldog with lockjaw who follows cameras around. go ahead.

>> i want to go back to sequester. one thing i think that's been fascinating to watch is, the white house, i think, had the same attitude as house republicans, i'd say, about a month ago, which was they publish would say, you know, they're really not crazy about sequester. but at the end of the day, there's not much we can do about it. let it go. it won't be the end of the world. and then that gdp report came out, and they saw what an impact the defense cuts had. the half trillion that already went in. the impact that it had. and i've noticed just in the last two weeks a renewed effort. so i think that the white house is more serious about trying to stop sequester now than i think they were a month ago. >> it will be very interesting. i wonder, tom cole, first, i want to ask you about nancy pelosi's performance yesterday and then ask chuck whether this is truly the view of the president and democrats. but nancy yesterday, tom, said a couple things. i know her, like her, known her for a long time but continue to

be stunned that she is a debt denier. she said we don't have a spending problem, first of all. and secondly, she says the problem with medicare is not medicare. tom cole. respond. >> you know, look. i have a lot of respect for leader pelosi as well, but that's just not the case. you're living in a fantasy. and she's been there for a long time. this is somebody that when president bush talked about reforming social security, something we need to do, really staged a democratic comeback in '05 and '06 over fighting any changes whatsoever in social security. and that's been pretty constant with my democratic friends all the way through. but at the end of the day, you just have to look at a budget pie chart. the money is on the entitlements side, that we've got an aging society. we've got a lot of problems in terms of health care costs. if you don't deal with those things, there's not enough discretionary spending to ever balance the budget. you have to recognize the problem before you can solve it. in this case, i think she's just not seeing it. >> hey, chuck, is nancy pelosi's position on entitlements is the position of the democratic party and the house certainly.

is that the position of the senate and the president as well? we don't have a medicare prob m problem, and we don't have a spending problem? >> well, if you hear the president's words, he himself has said medicare. he never says medicare. he always says health care spending is the problem. he's always careful not to use the word "medicare." that's sort of as a hat tip, if you will, to house democrats. but you're right. there is a little bit of a divide here. the white house likes that nancy pelosi's out there sort of drawing a i'm not going to -- you know, don't touch this at all line in the sand. then he can be the compromiser from there, if you will, go to the right of nancy pelosi on some of these issues. so no. i mean, there is a split there. and i think that there's a reality that the politics of this is dangerous for democrats. if they mess around too much, the interest groups that care about medicare and social security the most that would spend the most money, super pacs, all of that business. they've kept quiet.

they've given the president running room on this stuff. if he moves too much, then you could see, you know, all of the angst you see on the republican side where they're fighting amongst themselves all the time. you would see that among the democrats. >> i'll tell you, though, mika, if the democrats' position is we need another tax increase and there's not a problem with medicare -- >> no, that's just -- >> -- then they give the advantage to the republicans and they're back in the game. >> well, they put themselves in a similar category, just the opposite side. congressman tom cole, thank you very much. chuck todd, thank you as well. see you on "the daily run." here with us from boston, "frontline" producer michael kirk. his new documentary "cliff-hanger" on pbs takes us behind the scenes of the fiscal cliff drama on capitol hill. let's take a look at a clip. >> these guys are going into the meeting with the president. boehner has just been humiliated by his own people with the plan "b" debacle.

and he tells harry reid to go [ bleep ] himself. >> harry reid looks up and he says, what? excuse me? and boehner says it again. >> hey, listen. senator reid and i are close friends. we've got to work together. but just like any close friends, sometimes you just need to clear the air. and we did. >> i can't imagine that happening. >> oh, gee. oh, that's never happened on capitol hill before, has it, michael? >> i was talking about between us. that's okay. >> that would never happen. so michael, take us behind the scenes. here i suspect pass is going to be prologged several times in the future. >> well, exactly right. when i look forward to the state of the union address tomorrow night, i'm looking forward to seeing john boehner and joe biden sitting behind barack obama, especially after what i learned in the last six months digging into the fiscal cliff story and beyond.

it's just fascinating, you guys. the personalities and the clash in politics that surround it. we got pretty deeply inside of it and a very good interview with john boehner who i think finally decided to dish a little bit. >> what did he dish about? what did he tell you? >> well, he's taken us inside, you know, his relationship with president obama in what has been called the merlot and nicorettes secret conversations back in 2011. he's talked a bit about the revolution inside his own party with the 87 congressmen who were elected, the insurgents, they call them, or the unorthodox republicans that came in 2010. it's really a fascinating look inside how all of it kind of broke down over a crisis between eric cantor, those 87 republicans, president obama and john boehner. >> gail collins. >> i'm still thinking about merlot and nicorette. it's exciting. can you tell us, from what

you've done, from what you've looked at, what do you think about the sequester which we've been talking about this morning? is that doomed? is that going to fall over the cliff for sure? >> well, you know, people talk about it in our film talk about the fact that what the fiscal cliff was, when they pushed everything downstream until the election so that republicans could say, well, we'll do it our way with paul ryan and the democrats, the president could say, well, i'm going to make my decision, and you guys will have to follow me, and we'll go back to the negotiating table. what the election seemed to prove was, the people said, you decide. so these people who have strapped what one person in our film calls a suicide, a fiscal suicide vest on with the sequester, what we learned on new year's eve was that it's on a time-release detonator. and it's going to happen over the next few months. and the people who have been trying to negotiate this for 11 months, here they are again back at the table. and i'll give you two guesses about what's going to happen. >> michael, who are the heroes of your movie?

>> there's no profiles in courage in washington right now. >> okay. >> well, that's uplifting. >> it looks really good. i can't wait to see it. catch "frontline's cliff-hanger" on pbs tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. michael kirk, thank you very much for being on the show. >> my pleasure. >> i just got an interesting e-mail from bill kristol, national security leaders urge to stop quest sequestration now. max boots, fred kagan, a lot of names on there. >> it's a big list. >> that are very concerned that sequestration is really going to impact america's national security. and the president feels the same way. >> it would be very gutting. more "morning joe" when we come back. [ kitt ] you know what's impressive?

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all right. the vatican is expected to elect a new pope by mid-march following the breaking news this morning that pope benedict is stepping down. the 85-year-old made the

announcement during a meeting with cardinals. he cited a lack of strength for his decision to resign. so far there are no obvious front-runners to replace him, although there are several potential contenders. the pope's last day as head of the catholic chump wirch will b february 28th. up next, european officials find evidence of match fixing at the highest levels of soccer worldwide including games here in the u.s. our own sherlock holmes is here to investigate. roger bennett. you're watching "morning joe." the patient, presented with

a hairline fracture to the mandible and contusions to the metacarpus. what do you see? um, i see a duck. be more specific. i see the aflac duck. i see the aflac duck out of work and not making any money. i see him moving in with his parents and selling bootleg dvds out of the back of a van. dude, that's your life. remember, aflac will give him cash to help cover his rent, car payments and keep everything as normal as possible. i see lunch. [ monitor beeping ] let's move on. [ male announcer ] find out what a hospital stay could really cost you at aflac.com. ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. let's do it again -- watch me.

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>> i do. so there was this boy playing soccer, right, on one of the teams. and this guy comes up and pokes him in the ear, just gives his ear a little -- like that. yes. and he just starts rolling around on the ground like he's in the biggest pain ever. >> i've got to tell you, i've had that done on a wednesday in liverpool. >> really? >> it really works. lovely you're getting into it, mika, bit by bit. >> yes, i am. the floppers are annoying. >> let's talk about the weekend first. what happened? epl. >> pivotal weekend. manchester city. champions. needing to keep pace with manchester united. they went to tiny south hampton. the city lost in 1912 when the titanic left its shores. city were expected to dominate. >> didn't happen that way, did it? >> didn't happen indeed. this is southampton. scrappy ball around the area. and then mika, please avert your eyes. possibly the most uncouth goal

celebration in goal celebration history. this gentleman had the stomach flu a couple of weeks ago, had to leave the field to answer the call of nature. they decently cut it off. >> what did he do?nature, and s had a charmin moment, he wiped himself in front of the public. >> no, he rochered. >> yes, before it was invented. and now south hampton trying to get back into the game, and this gareth barry, with one of the finest finishes in his career, but unfortunately into his own net, joe. >> what? you are not supposed to do that? >> it was self-implosion, and humiliation, and look at this. rolled across and picked up gareth barry and passed his own goalkeeper. >> and the best part is that his own goalkeeper never saw it coming. >> well, he dropped it over the

line, and if any game proves a match in football, joe, this is it. manchester had to do the business against manchester united. >> and what happened? >> more football with manchester united putting it in a chokehold for 90 minutes. fir first the score for the first 21st straight season. when he started scoring joe montana was the super bowl champion, and electricity just introduced into mainland. and tim howard to gravity rather hue millimiliatin humiliatingly. and gus johnson, basketball's gus johnson will get behind the mic, because he is the future voice of football in this country. >> one of the things that disappoints americans when they try to pick up soccer is that it

does seem corrupt. you have seth bladder and the corrupt international organization, so i was not surprised to see all of the match fixing problems. it is still corrupt. why? >> well, it is $3 billion bet a day on soccer around the world and most of it in the asian market, and with that amount of money, it is easy to corrupt a goalkeeper or referee in a minor hungarian league, and the european crime fighting organization announced they have 680 incidents of match fixing over the last four years. >> wait, what have you heard about the one that fixed a champions league game in england? >> well, that is rumored to be a minor hungarian team in the game against liverpool, but what is not known is which 680, and right now, it is a schoolyard rumor. i know something about you, and so it is whether you trying to get into the press by riding the coattails, but if it is true, it is devastating for football and seems to have to go into the

governmental initiatives to clean it up. it has been faeen false all of time. >> and how do you break the back of seth bladder in an organization that says that if any governments investigate us, their team can't play in the world cup, and that is why seth bladder is the most corrupt, and the most corrupt person in charge of any organization, and his organization is corrupt and everybody knows that the world cup was bought and paid for, and corrupt -- >> you are talking about the one off to qatar in 2013? >> everybody knows that was bought and paid for, and so when do the governments start to investigating. >> well, seth plaid er is the kind of austin powers baddie who runs soccer. he evades scandal after scandal, but this is fully not on his watch, and about asian crime syndicates well organized and

dealing with the governmental level rather than the fifa level. >> okay, roger. stay away from the ear. >> i want to see it. >> and on tomorrow's show -- >> keep your head down. >> and tomorrow, we will be joined by award-winning journalist cokie robertson, and chris matthews and joachim joe. we will see you tomorrow on "morning e joe." [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises?

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o. coming up, a growing problem among our nation's youth, and with we will bring in a cautionary tale of how a misdiagnosis of adhd can turn deadly. and coming up the surprise announcement of pope benedict that he will resign at the end of next month. that is next on "morning joe." students everywhere are looking for someone who can help them reach their full potential. with an advanced degree in education from capella university, you'll be better equipped to deal with today's issues and make an even greater impact. let's get started at capella.edu.

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♪ okay. i can't even see out the lenses of the camera. >> it is gorgeous. new york city. >> that makes you want to jump out of bed and enjoy work, doesn't it? and enjoy the elements. miserable cold, dingy rain. >> and if you are in new york city, you and your family can come to 30 rockefeller plaza and take a tour and go to the top of the rock, and you can see this. let me tell you that the kids will drink it up. >> absolutely. >> you will love it. >> what a wonderful day for a tour of new york city. >> i was in, and i don't know if

you knew this or not, but looking at the picture that clayton collins took, but i was up in woodstock this weekend. >> isn't that pretty. >> and we have other pictures that i took that i won't ask anybody to cycle through, but that is a really, really special place. mike barnicle told us about it a couple of years ago. >> yes, that is right. >> and took my kids over to ski at suicide six which is a great -- >> the greatest little -- >> ski report. >> and the village is amazing. >> and it is a time warp. >> yes, like you. >> and i took some pictures which i expected them to scroll through, but they won't do it. >> in three, two, one -- but it is just really gorgeous, and very cold, but really nice. have you been up there? >> well, i have not been woodstock, but in that neck of the woods and it is beautiful, vermont area. >> and how about you, mark? >> a town named afterf a little tiny bird. >> that, too. >> that is a perfect, perfect town. >> and as we were discussing in the commercial break, it is just as nice in summer as it is in

the middle of winter. >> i like the idea of a ski resort called suicide six. >> well, they call it that, because it is a really, really -- well, it is one of the most family-friendly places i have ever been and it is called suicide six, because it is one of the first ski slopes in america, so when people drove up, it is before everybody got as good as they got in skiing in america, and look att that. absolutely beautiful. >> does the pharmacy have a soda fountain? >> it does. >> there is a soda fountain there at one of the shops, and a butcher, and a baker. >> and a candlestick maker? >> yes, that, too. >> and you know what they were talking about yesterday? the pope. but they are this morning. they are all atwitter in woodstock this morning. that is all i had. >> and this morning, pope benedict 16th will resign as e head of the catholic church. the 85-year-old cited this

morning his deteriorating condition. he is the sixth pontiff to step down. he will clear way for the vatican to elect a new leader by the end of the month. so pope benedict resigning as the head of the catholic church. >> he has been there for 70 years and resigning, because he is just exhausted and physically exhausted. there were reports before this resignation that he was really having a hard time physically, and a lack of energy and lack of strength, and a lot of medical problems that they have added up to him and deciding to step down and as mark halperin report and little known fact, but he was a correspondent to the vatican back in the late 1400s, but this is the first time that a pope has resigned since -- >> 1415. >> it is a long time ago. >> it is an interesting, and i would like to hear more about the decision, because it is so interesting, because pope john

paul ii and one of the greatest legacies was how he died. and how he handled death, and addressed it. and we watched and learned. >> so far off of the news reports, limited news reports that we have had out of the vatican, everyone around the pope was surprised by this announcement. the conclave of college of cardinals is going to take place in the middle of march, and it is going to be a watershed moment for the catholic church. where do they go? i mean clearly this pope was a caretaker, and where do they go? to the philippines, to africa? latin america for the growth of the church for the next pope? do they go right, as this pope took the church even more no the right, or do they come back more towards the middle with the american church in their minds. the fact that you have a mass sunday and you look around and there is a lot of white hair and no hair in the pews around you. >> well, there is a lot of talk

right now, mika, about the cardinals electing the next pope from africa. >> yes. and what the vatican is telling sus th us that they hope to have a new pope in place before holy week march 24th. >> it is a very, and the vatican is fascinating, because it is a political organization and really is, and you joked about it, but there have been great political reporters who have covered the vatican. e.j. dion covered the vatican in the '70s and the whole thing of covering it as a political institution and so much internal maneuvering and something that has not happened a resigned pope, and now a snap decision of the college of cardinals to make a decision and a lot of lobbying and jockeying for position, and it is going to be fascinating to play out over the next few weeks. >> yes, it may be the most

fascinating elections pope john paul ii, and coming from poland and how fascinating that in 1979 electing a european pope was a shock, because the pope was from poland. and now i think that we are going to change continents. >> and the best handicapping so far is that "business insider" has a list of the candidates and a lot of them from italy, and some people think that it is the last gasp to get another italian pope before we move forward to another diverse situation, but a decent chance of people reacting to it, and based on what happened last time when there was a lot of speculation about going outside of europe for a pope. we may get a non-white pope and non-european pope and it would be a big deal for the church. >> i think that we step away from that and this might be the italians' last gasp and then moving forward in the future. so we are going to go to washington -- >> we will be following that. >> and tomorrow, we will talk about the state of the union, a big event here. >> yes, the show there tomorrow, and president obama will deliver the state of the union address tomorrow night, and a speech that the white house officials say will focus on the jobs and the economy. the president is expected to

push for more investments in infrastructure, clean energy and education. he'll zero in on the issue of the middle-class, advocating for what he described to house democrats last week as a quote, economy that works for everybody. tomorrow's speech will also focus on immigration, climate change and gun violence, echoing themes of last month's inaugural address. on wednesday, the president will head to asheville, north carolina, to begin a three-state tour to sell his proposals. the post-state of union barnstorming will also hit atlanta and chicago later in the week. so taking it to the people once again. >> so what should he say, mike? >> i think that he should, you know, discuss in detail what economic plan he has in mind to rebuild the job structure in this country. we are at a pivot point where every tech noe lnological advan somewhere somehow cost someone a

job here in the united states of america, and you have a generation of people as we indicated earlier talking about it early, and i would peg the ages of between 40 and 55 who have lost jobs over the last six or seven year, and those jobs that have been lost are not coming back. what do we do with these people? what do we do with these people? there is nothing more demeaning -- >> you said that the president needs to -- >> exactly. >> and the president needs to tell people that he gets it. he has been there four years, and rarely that moment are the thist president, and we saw it from after newtown that the president got emotional and took it to the people there, but we don't see it on jobs very often are the this president. he just -- he always seems to underperform at state of the unions. and it doesn't mats ematter if his own base or what the left expects or the people in the middle. mark, we should not expect anything dramatic, should we? >> well, he is working with a new speechwriter and john faber who has been by his side is

gone, and is op opportunity here is to surprise people. we have a sense from the inaugural address and the coverage they have leaked out over the weekend about what he will say and we have a sense of where he will go and what kind of speech he will give, and if he surprises people in reaching out in some way and challenging the republicans in some way that is unexpected he could make a big splash even if what is in there is stuff that republicans consider a nonstarter. >> what about john heilemann would be an example of him reaching out that he has not done already? i know we have argued this, but in the state of the union address, any way to try to find some common ground between him and the republicans that he has been trying for five years almost now. >> well, he has struck a defiant tone so far from election day, but to mark's point about surprising people, and if he did try to do that, it could be seen as a speech bookend to the

inaugural, and it tooked about a lot of the liberal priorities and the things that the president believes are important for the second term, the climate change and the energy issue, and the gun control agenda, but he did not talk about jobs or the economy, and this speech is on the basis of what they have been previewing is going to be very much to that, and to mike's point, it is to try to put, and put jobs front and center and try to figure out ways in which he can talk in a way that will pull the republicans on board, because it is the one thing that everybody in both parties should agree on which is that we have had a job crisis in the last four years in country and a long term jobs crisis which looks like it will play out in the x next couple of generations, and it is time to get on board of that train. >> what would the reak shction f the president of the united states tomorrow night indicated that 60 years ago president eisenhower implemented the intrastate highway program and put millions of people to work and gave us a new country that developed suburbs to have people

go from one place to another in a short time that was unfathomable. >> and he invested in mathematicians after sputnik, and these are tings that i talk about every single day that so many people don't understand, and you can take kir of the long-term debt and make the country sound again fiscally while making the short term investments that don't pay off in the long run. >> is the process so crippled, so paralyzed and polarized that if the president tomorrow night were to propose a new intranet national highway system, and we will hook up this country, that we were going the become comparable to south korea or hong kong or the philippines in terms of being able to get on line and place likes that that are far edadvanced from us, butt is going to cost some money, what would the response be from the opposition? >> well, it depends mark halper halperin, because the republicans are willing to give

the president some latitude, because we heard from tom cole saying that we don't want to cut discretionary spending anymore, but the president is saying what i have been saying forever, he has to get serious about the medicare and serious about medicaid, and serious about social security and not cutting it now, not cutting it this week, and not cutting it this month, and not cutting hit the year, and not even cutting it this decade. but saying, here's what we are going to do in the out-years and send a message to the markets, we are getting serious, and this is how the future is going to look. it might give him some latitude, right? >> well, the things like internet or the other investments are nothing. they are small ball compared to deals on revenues and sb entitlements. i'll say it again and i have been optimistic and hopeful for most of the president's time in office, p but we are as far away on deals on those things as we have been and i don't see how the president changes that, because making deals on revenue and entitlements requires trust and a willingness for both sides

to sacrifice and to compromise, and there is no, none of that right now. >> and is the president, mika, really willing to play out the next four terms like this? small ball, a skirmish here or there? >> well, he does not want to. >> well, he is going to have to take a chance and after he takes a chance, the republicans -- sgh and what would that chance be? >> go before the country tomorrow night, and say something dramatic about medicare and say something dramatic about medicaid and say something dramatic about saving the entitlement programs for the next generation. talk about real tax reform, and talk about cutting defense spending, and talk about investing in education and investing in the r&d and the things that americans know we have to invest in, in the short term, and tom cole is saying, let's not cut discretionary spending and you can get a deal, but the president is saying, i'm

not going show my card, because they are going if attack me, and harry reid says, we won't put a budget together for four year, because they will attack us and now the republicans are doing the same thing. so why do you think that there is this seeming inability or reluctance to tell the country the hard truth that anybody with common sense can grasp? everybody knows the hard truth out there, that there are cuts that have to be made. and people know this. >> i thought we had -- who was "the new york times" columnist that you had on monday report? david lianhard, and i loved what he said, there is a consensus in american, and we are going to allow the republicans to set tax policy and allow the democrats to set the spending policy. good luck with that. i'm going to new zealand, and i mean it. that is americans don't want taxes raised, and they want to believe that nancy pelosi is

right, and we can spend all we want, and there is not a problem. >> no, and we will lose our national -- >> and the cast of characters john boehner, and harry reid and the president and mitch mcdonnell -- there is no history between them that would lead you to believe they will join hands and address the issues. >> and we have been critical of the president -- i have been critical of the president for not being a creature of washington and not knowing how to do the deal like reagan knew how to do the deal and clinton and even bush knew how to do the deal with the democrats, but that is half of the story, and the other half, mitch mcconnell and eric cantor, and congress has changed. they really have. these guys are all lone wolves, and they are all lone wolves and 435 lone wolves in the house, and the same in the senate and then lindsey graham.

>> he keeps going on tv. >> and so, it is -- >> it is difficult. >> and i know that i have blamed the president for not being able to bring everybody together. >> he can't. >> well, he has no choice. he has to do it. it has to be hard e, but he has to do it. we have one president, and only one person who can do it. >> there are hard coalitions to build, the inside-out coalitions to leave some of the democratic base and the republican base left behind and you have to work in the middle, and they are hard to do. so much easier just to do the partisan thing, and to build those coalitions out of the middle and very hard in this toxic environment. >> and also, coming up, a growing epidemic for the nation's youth, adder roall addiction and why a misdiagnosis can be fatal. we will talk to a columnist ellen schwartz, about the deadly case of one young man. and we will talk to stephanie cutter and also latino fellow

from the university of texas, dr. francesco soto, but first, here is bill karins with the weather forecast. >> connecticut is not a fun place to be after the heels of the big blizzard and now dealing with freezing rain. one of the busiest highways i-95 has a overturned tractor-trailer and car on it, and that the idea of not traveling in massachusetts or connecticut, and just wait another couple of hours, because it will warm up and be rain. but right now, freezing rain is widespread in southern new england, and temperatures are warming up. new haven at 36 and providence 37 and so plenty of cold air for that freezing rain and snow and sleet there in massachusetts and new hampshire. we had the tornado yesterday, and it traveled all of the red dots is the tornado path. pretty incredible stuff down there, and today, not much better. difficulties cleaning up when it is pouring rain and additional thunderstorms, and we have freezing rain and in the

northeast and these storms in the deep south and then we have a snowstorm that is still up there in wisconsin, so it is a crazy weather pattern ahead and it will stay active with the storms in the southeast, and we will get a weak snowstorm tuesday and wednesday from oklahoma and light snow in areas of southern new england and new york city, but the big story, and what i am looking forward to or looking at advance in, and not looking forward to, is what is happening this weekend, and looks like another possible big storm for the east coast, and it is yet to be determined rain or snow, but all of the cards are there for a big trough in the eastern seaboard. we will see a lot of cold air down there over canada, and the question is who will get the brunt of the storm saturday and sunday for the east coast. i will have detalils on that as the week progresses. the least thing we need is another big storm, but it looks possible. new york city, plain old rain for you and trying to clean up the mess from the snowstorm. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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marco rubio has been designated as the republican respondent which is smart because he is the hot hand, and will the president stick it to him and say, i'm going to be good on immigration and you have the handle the issue? >> well, he is going to make immigration one of the issues that he talks about in the state of the union, but the marco rubio gets to the question of whether obama can get out of the zero-sum-gain washington to do something on immigration reform, he has to destroy marco rubio

who is the republican symbol of progress on that. >> and with us now is former obama campaign manager stephanie cutter joining us on the set and contributor to msnbc, and fellow at the university of texas, dr. victoria defrancesco soto -- and she says i can call her vicki. >> vicki is better for me. >> and marco rubio tweeted that he is not the savior, and is he not this is. >> he is not the savior, but he is one smart politico. >> he is? >> yes, i'm more excited about marco rubio's response than the state of the union and i don't know whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. >> why is that? >> because which marco rubio is going to do it? >> well, he is doing it in two languages for the first time ever. >> and like german, who thought there would be political upside to speaking german. so english and spanish. >> first time ever.

or is he going to be the marco rubio of 2010/2011 and very hardline tea party and are we going to see a big dose of the fiscal conservatism, and a brushing of the immigration or going to be general electorate marco rubio. >> and what is fascinating stephanie cutter is that you are going to have marco rubio's response which pro immigration, and then you are going to have the tea party response by rand paul who is also proimmigration, and then of course, the president who is pro immigration. this has not happened -- >> sounds like a deal. >> a love fest. >> and we just worked it out right here. >> but how quickly things change when the republicans are locked out of the white house because they get 26% of the hispanic votes. >> we will take it no matter how it comes with people wanting to work on immigration. i hope that rubio says tomorrow night what he has been saying in

washington that he wants to work towards earned citizenship for undocumented people here in this country. and that is critical. >> what is earned citizenship? >> well, that is that you go to the back of the line and learn english, and you pay your taxes, and you maybe pay a fine and you earn your citizenship to be in this country. >> and when you say back of the line so people watching will understand that my biggest problem where the past plans is that, you know, the fact that when i was in congress that you would have people that would be like working for a decade to get, you know, a family member in, and it always seemed unfair to me that somebody came across the border illegally and they immediately jumped in line of the people from africa, and people of eastern europe and china and all over the world, so that is what you mean when you talk about go g ing to the back the line that we are going to do this, but everybody is going to be treated fairly. >> and yes, and talking about i irca from one day to the next -- >> explain that. >> so immigration reform and control act of 1986 which is the

last major overhaul of immigration and that is what we compared to the failure of 1986, but there it pass and you could go and apply for the paperwork, and you'd get a temporary residency and pay a $135 application and that was it. it left a bad taste in the mouth, and that is why we are talking about the paying the back taxes and going to the back of the line, because there is thep element of fairness. >> it has to be fair, and bring up the '86 act, and the republicans constantly complain about ronald reagan's amnesty plan in 1986 and not because of the amnesty granted, but because, john, what happened afterwards, because it encouraged more people to come here illegally. how does a president's plan change that? >> well sh, the president obvioy is trying to figure out a way to do up -- look, i think that is a huge question on the policy is whether in fact there is any way to do anything that looks like amnesty and does encourage more people to come here, and that in

the end, the questions are around enforcement and all of these things that have sine quon non for republicans to get on board are being put down to create the prophylactic. >> and can we say that word prophylactics on the show? >> you said the magic word. >> i try to say it every time i'm on the show. >> i'm waiting for condoms to drop from the sky. >> look, if you make the immigration system more open, it is going to be a magnate and it is in some sense, because it is america and one of the unk uncomfortable truths that it is going to happen. >> and stephanie, some might have argued that there were a few things missing from the inaugural address and maybe it is more of a historical marker than it was policy and moving forward in the next few years,

and what do you think that the fundamental one or two messages are that the president should leave america with tomorrow night? >> well, i think that, you are right, the inaugural was not meant to be a policy address. i heard somebody describe it earlier as the state of the union being a bookend to that. >> that is me. >> okay. thank you, john. >> you got it right. >> way to go. >> and these two speeches are connected the president laying out the principles as a country in the inaugural address and what we're grounded in, in fairness and justice and opportunity and that is described as a liberal speech. i disagree with that, because if you look at the issues that he discussed in the speech, they are right smack in the center of that, immigration, climate change, gay marriage, and that is where the country is. they were once called progressive liberal issue, but if you look at the results of the last election, they are where a majority of the country is in agreement. for the state of the union, i think that it is going to remind everybody that the central issue of our time is the economy, and we need to do some things if we

want to continue to grow our economy. joe, i heard you say earlier that the president needs to make the case that there are things that we need to do to invest now, and deal with our debt over the long term. that is exactly what he has been arguing and argued on the campaign trail, and that is what his $4 trillion e deficit reduction plan is about. i'm not on the inside anymore and i don't know what is actually in the speech, but i would guess that he is going to make a similar argument. and also layout the consequences to the country if we let the sequester happen. we are three weeks away, and you are right, there is no deal on the table, no sign of anything moving forward right now. if republicans, if congress doesn't pass something to deal with the sequester whether it is short-term or dealing in the long-term, there are pretty big consequences in terms of jobs, in terms of education, and in terms of some of the critical investments that we are talking about. >> and in, even in some polls

showing at least on some parts of it that they are with him on the gun con e troll. assault weapon control. but only on the background checks do. you expect him to lay down a marker, a big one on that. >> on guns, generally, yes, absolutely, doi expect that. again, i haven't seen the speech, but i think that this opportunity is so big that he has to talk about it. >> and are you a texas native? >> i'm not. i married a texan, so i am texan by marriage. >> how long have you been there? >> two years now. >> and how is that going? >> i love austin. austin is a great city. >> and awesome. >> and go horns. >> they love ted cruz in austin, don't they. is ted cruz the face of the future of texas politics? >> no. he is short-term. >> which one of the castro brothers is the face of the future of politics? >> well, it is going to be the moderate republicans are going to start to come back into the fore and george p. bush is what

i am putting up there. >> well, interesting. >> stephanie cutter and vicki, thank you very, very much. >> great to have you both on. come back soon and the consequences of adderall addictions and the problem of people struggling with adhd. and we will be joined by ellen schwartz of "the new york times." a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪ ya. alright, another one just like that.

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37 past the hour and here with us the e medical correspondent for pbs's need to know, dr. emily sinae, and pulitzer prize winning journalist allen schwartz who wrote a piece about richard mcphee who died after an addiction of adderall, and the article reads in part of this. richard fee's experience included it all. conversations with friends and family members and a review of detailed medical records depict an intelligent and articulate young man lying to doctor after doctor, and physicians continuing with a hasty diagnosis and psychiatrists

continuing to prescrip medication even increasing dosages despite evidence of his growing addiction and psychiatric breakdown. any step along the way, someone could have helped him, but they were just handing him out drugs says richard's father, and these people know there are kids out there getting these drugs and getting addicted to them. and doctors are helping them do it. >> i have seen it with my son's friends and friends of friends and the part of the problem is, doctor, that psychiatrists now, they get reimbursed not for sitting and counseling, but reimbursed for getting people in and out of the office as quickly as possible and prescribing medication, and a lot of times they have prescribed it on a whim and i have heard the story hundreds of times. >> i can't say that is not true, because it happens for sure, and certainly in the terrible tragic story that alan describes in a

heart-breaking way, this is a disaster and fail on every level. particularly, since the information got back to the doctors that were prescribing that this is a kid who was really in the throes of a terrible addiction, so there were problems down the line and not just the initial diagnosis and the prescription, but repeated failures to catch this kid who was so terribly addicted. >> alan, this is a growing epidemic, and college campuses, prescription abuse is rampant and kids are dying. kids are dying. it would shock americans to know how many kids are overdosing whether it is adderall, oxycontent, and some kids do a combination of it and they are on the adderall and then going on the oxycontin to come out of the adderall and then it stops working and they are falling off of a clip and they stop breathing in their sleep, and it

is happening all over america. >> and there are other cases who are prescribed adderall and for kids who do not have the disorder for which it is prescribed. one thing that is important, doctor, i think that you would agree, that adderall and other medications when prescribed appropriately, they can be safe and effective and lifesavers and not life takers, but the problem is when that process is misused either by the doctor not paying attention or by the patient who is lying in order to get the equivalent of free cocaine, then you have problems. so it is important to make a distinction between those who have the disorder legitimately and shouldn't be demonize and those who don't. >> and then you have kids who start to popping the adderall close to finals. >> yes. >> or studying for the big exams, and it is happening. >> and i think that another part of this is that just so that we

are, these kids are not junkies, and these kids are not caught in the back alleys. >> and a different type of junk junkie. >> and it is a different type of junkie. >> and the stereotype is that these are good kids and in this example the parents brought them up as well as they could, but my point is that when you are addicted to something, you will say anything and you can be the nicest and the sweet eest and t most well educated and well brought up person, but if you are addicted to one of these drugs, you will do what it takes to get them. >> and make no mistake, they are polite, and well behaved and they come from the right families, and they are junkies. and we live in a culture where -- >> i should have put it in quotes. >> and mike barnicle said this and i remember reading this back in the 1980s when tom wolf said that we have the most affluent generation of all time and the most medicated generation at the same time. and kids are dying. left and right. >> well, as alan points out, for

the right people n is a terrific drug. i can't imagine that there is another drug though that is more overprescribed and more easily prescribed than adderall and i worry about the parental addiction to adderall in the sense that your kid is trying to get into high school and testing high school or trying to get into college and didn't do that well on the s.a.t.s and someone says he does not concentrate well, and get him some adderall. >> and this did not start in 20 12 or 2013 and you remember, because you have kids. >> and mother's little helper. that is what it was. >> and mike, you have kids and you have like zen khave like sen the 1990s any problems, they would say, the attention deficit and give them ritalin. >> and one of the things that we must acknowledge is that for a certain percentage of american children, whether it is 3, 5, 7

and it works on anybody, and it is saying hey, put on the platform shoes and see fit makes you taller, but it is 3 or 5 or 7% of kids with a legitimate disorder of dopamine transfer, and when handled by an appropriate physician and/or parent. >> and there are a certain of spern t percentage of kids who need it and they are not getting it. so problems on both ends of the spectrum. >> so i'm not a mathematician, but that means that half of the kids are not meeting the dsm-iv level. >> well, i want to confirm and then we will do a statement from the drug companies, but did you get that from your kids growing up, too? it was constant and not just a doctors, but it was the teachers and the principals and the counselors and you heard ritalin, ritalin, ritalin, and

now are hearing adderall, adderall, and adderall, and mee car, the -- mika, where a small percentage it works, but it is causing damage, because it is overprescribed and the culture now. >> and adderall is a schedule ii controlled substance and the package insert clearly states the risks and abuses, and this medication is not recommended for people with a history of drug abuse, and it is one of the drugs subject to abuse. >> well, it comes under the info moder of how dangerous this can be and that is what the kid kept saying, the doctor wrote me the

prescription, and it must be okay. >> that is correct. >> and it gives you a certain sense of security if it is coming through a physician, but somewhere it has been lost that these can be dangerously addictive and, you know, although his case is rare, and we would agree with that. >> yes, but the reason it is instructive is not in how it ended, but how it evolved. >> yes. >> and not the fact that he killed himself tragic as that is, but what led him to the point to consider something like this. >> and let me say, again, having kids and i have a 25-year-old, a 22-year-old, and a lot of friends and friends of friends of friends and maybe the ending is rare, but the story is being played out on every single college campus, and it is so widespread. >> and in high school now. >> and in high school now. and the abuse of prescription medications, and it seems safer, because it comes from mom and dad's cabinet or mom and dad saying, you go to this doctor and if you are having a problem

and they can handle it. you rush into the psychiatrist office and he is not being paid for listening for 20 or 30 minutes, but give them this, and this is a crack judgment, and here you go. >> and some handle it that way, and some are very good, but most do not. >> and the pay structure does not reward doctors for sitting in an office to talk to a kid for 30 or 40 minutes and then having these callbacks. >> and so great to see you dr. emily senay, and alan schwartz, thank you as well, incredible piece. and coming up "before the bell" brian sullivan, and we will be right back.

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here's brian sullivan, and old sully, and "business before the bell." what is going on? >> well, before 1972 two beautiful things happened is that my mother brought me on to this plant and the s&p 500 rose six straight weeks for the year and we did it again for the first time since 1971, we are up on the broader indexes six weeks to start a year, and futures indicating another higher day today and incredible run for the markets. also, we have a great story on cnbc coming up this afternoon about the so-called revolving door of the s.e.c. and 2000 complaints of the s.e.c. staffers leaving the s.e.c. and then filing basically motions on behalf of the new employer, oftentime oftentimes wall street and some within 48 hours after leaving the s.e.c. and how is that for a revolving door? i know that mika is not there, but mountain dew is rolling out a new beverage called kick

star start. it is not a soda, but a juice with a little extra dose of caffeine, for the kids who are not jacked up enough on the sugared cereal. >> and you know what else happened in 1971? >> what? >> the zeppelin classic "stairway to heaven." >> and the first mccar cartney album. 1970. >> another day. >> wrbrian sullivan, thank you much. "morning joe" is back in a moment. i'm a conservative investor.

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joe" and we talk about what you learned. michael, what did you learn? >> i learned that we are on the edge of a potentially huge story with potential ramifications with the catholic church and new pope to be elect ed ined in the concave in the middle of march, and pope benedict resigning and first time in 600 years and enormous story. >> what about you? >> i learned that the last time the pope resigned, mike barnicle was about to get his driver's license. >> 1415 and let me tell you it was hard. >> well, it is like those flintstone cars that mike had to move the feet really fast. >> all right. well, very good, and pitchers and catchers today. this is the day you waited for. >> it looks like it out there. >> it has been a long and cold and lonely winter. >> little darling. we will see what happens. if it is way too early, mike, what time is it? >> well, if it is way too early, it is time for "morning joe"